The White Lily Blog

Hungary’s plea: If only we had a stronger Church!

Please note: SSPX does have mass in Budapest, Hungary, on the second and third Sundays of the month at 10:00, as well as 6:00 on the Saturday evenings preceding the Sunday. The celebrant is Father Fuchs. The address is Thokoly Ut 116.1.3, #3. More information may be obtained from Mr. Landgrebe, who speaks English, at the Austria rectory +4327166515 (how Google Voice renders it, which worked for me calling from the US) or +43 (0) 2716/6515 (how the Austrian website renders it and perhaps for European dialers). Let’s go show Hungary some love.

 And now, on the topic:

A Polish Catholic Sunday weekly interviewed Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orban that makes the connection between Hungary’s fight to reverse her dire situation and SSPX’s doctrinal struggles.  You must read this interview, where the rosary is  given its proper place as a full-blown political weapon, and in which we hear the director of a country in the fight of its life say the words traditional Catholics are saying all over the world.  Viktor Orban laid it out: “If we had stronger Church, the whole country would be stronger.”

Certainly the faux traditionalists will hear this merely as a plea for an increased recognition of  that new church, the Counciliar church, and not a plea for any kind of doctrinal restoration of the old True Faith. (That new church, by the way, was still too preoccupied with its ecumenical week to manage a press conference in support of Hungary.)

Orban means the true Church, that much is obvious, because of the Church’s traditional support for the Catholic religious state, not the ‘religious liberty’ of Vatican II; Hungary has put itself on the line moving in the direction of a religious state, and away from the Council’s favored secular one.  Hungary now desperately needs the Church to repudiate the ‘religious liberty’ that the Church has touted since the Council and continues to trumpet in defiance of Her tradition. She asserts it is a new Tradition.

And it isn’t just that issue.  There are others where the Church can and must help. Hungary needs the Church to approve Hungary’s fight against the banks.  Hungary needs for the Church to assert Hungary’s right to fight homosexuality through public civic sanctions (only against gay marriage or adoption of children, not other homosexual behavior), instead of legitimizing it, as the Church’s current governing documents and practice presently do. Hungary needs the Church to at least support the new constitution’s protection of life from conception. At least that!

But no, instead the Vatican attacks Hungary. Stefan Bos’ March 2013 reportage on Vatican Radio repeats and augments every single liberal criticism of Hungary’s struggle to restore the Faith to their civic life, including a slur against their attempt to protect marriage as a union between a man and a woman.

Very interestingly, Hungary needs what traditionalists want:  doctrinal reversal of Vatican II’s false teachings on religious liberty, collegiality, and ecumenism. This is what SSPX wants. They want real Catholicism back. They, too, want a strong Church, and it must come from the restoration of the strong doctines.

Very many Catholics do not see the connection between doctrine and practice. They think the former is for eggheads and the latter is for do-ers. Some time back there was a comment on one of the accomodationalist traditional blogs that ‘all this misplaced  SSPX stubborness about doctrinal issues’ mattered not at all to those engaged ‘in real struggles, on the ground,’ which caused the whitelilyblog to eye the liquor cabinet early.

Because it’s such bs. Because here, in this interview, is Orban’s assessment on the ground, and nobody is ‘on the ground’ more, at this moment, than Hungary, except possibly SSPX.  They have practical needs, and their constitution has laid down a doctrinal constitution to meet them.  Do we want financial stability? Do we want social stability? Give us the teachings of the Catholic Church about family and economic justice! Orban is pleading for it. Not the ecumenical blatherings of that other, new church that blurs all the strong principles until there are none left to use to defend us.

The ecumenical church is on the other side. The ecumenical church whose interests Benedict curiously continues to promote, the ecumenical church whose palid purpose bored us all last week,  permits divorce, permits common law relationships,  permits homosexual relations, and promotes the homosexual model.  Economically the ecumenical church permits a whole slew of vague ‘free market’ un-Catholic economic positions that leaves the barn door wide open for various predators.  The traditional Catholic church protected us with regulation such as Hungary now tries to impose. The traditional Catholic church protected the poor such as Hungary’s new constitution promises to do, by bringing the banks and the other predatory mercantile interests into line. The new church mumbles we ‘should’ be just, –but make no laws! That would be against freedom! That might offend someone’s dignity! Everyone must have the right to choose whatever sin they like, and the poor church must only abstain from sinning, never forbid it in legislation. We must ‘form consciences’ until our children are wearing chains.

Hungary has disobeyed. But she has obeyed the old, true Church. Just like SSPX.  Neither Hungary nor SSPX are in schism. It is the modernists, both in the Church and in the EUSSR who are in schism, and they have wrecked both the Church and the economy, with their idiotic liberalism.

Every working man and woman in the world needs the sleeping beauty called the One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church to wake up and engage.

If you do not wish to read the entire interview, below are several substantial quotes that capture the heart of Hungary’s struggle over both values and economics. Regarding Hungary’s economic steps that have so shocked Europe, Orban says

“When we took over the authority in 2010, we had enormous debts and a big budget gap, our country was on the verge of bankruptcy, and corruption was omnipresent. Everything which was thicker than the air was either stolen or sold. We were trying to stop it together with our government. I did not have any other choice than using methods which are not popular in Europe – the bank tax or the tax for the biggest corporations. I used these methods in order to help indebted citizens of the middle class who are paying off loans in foreign currencies. International corporations and bank institutions felt it as a big blow. They suffered from enormous losses and therefore, my actions were perceived in a negative way. International corporations, banks and financial institutions submitted accusations against me to Brussels in order to regain their lost money.”

There is nothing in the steps named here that the traditional Catholic church cannot support and did not use, in the blessed Catholic state, in the service of broad distribution of ownership and income. She should please come out and do so again, when Hungary needs a friend.

Regarding Hungary’s new pro-life constitution, Orban says about the attacks on it:

“There is a paragraph in it which defines the family as the base for the social life. Therefore we do not give homosexual couples such rights as to families and we refuse to give homosexual couples rights to adopt children. Certainly, the constitution also says that we defend life from the conception, that we respect and protect it. But the fact that it is our opinion does not mean that we are outside Europe. There is a discussion on such issues in the whole Europe. Millions of people in Germany, France or Spain think about these issues in a similar way. It is a problem not only in Hungary; it concerns all European countries. But we inscribed these values in the constitution. And those who do not like it will do everything to prevent us from it.”

These are heartening words for all the rest of us ‘on the ground’ in the war for our families and our country.

That Hungary’s new constitution is thoroughly legitimate and thoroughly modern (rather than some kind of throw-back to an earlier epoch), there is an extremely interesting interview with German constitutional expert Rupert Scholz that completely exposes the simplistic leftist lies about that aspect of the issue.

Please go read the entire article, and perhaps consider it as a kind of draft blueprint for Catholic America. We are at a crossroads now, and we ought to consider an independent position asking for these same steps that Hungary is taking, rather than submerging our identity in the Democrat or Republican parties, both of which are selling us out. And even more urgently, we should pledge ourselves to SSPX’s next rosary crusade, and we should keep demanding doctrinal reversal of Vatican II’s errors.

Here is a link to the FIDESZ  homesite in English:

7 Comments so far
Leave a comment

SSPX– if you are listening–I went to your website and did not see locations in Hungary. Please go to Hungary and set up organizations, schools, monasteries, and churches. I hope you will go soon. I see there are courageous Hungarians on the right path. Please help them to build a stronger moral foundation for their people.
In reality, It doesn’t matter if there are some Hungarians that are not Catholic; perhaps they are deistic or agnostic or simply confused or indecisive on religion. What matters is: a nation should preserve institutions that help to establish and maintain high moral standards. The positive influences of such institutions help to promote healthier and stronger self identities and national identities and ultimately are a benefit to all European nations. Such institutions help to fight against the destructive influences promoted by enemies of Europe. There must be someone to counter the enemies (yes, there are enemies!) within the nations of Europe that control (or, try to control) the banks/money and media and government and laws and educational system and clothing industry and so forth. Not all are cowards.
This article is uplifting. Thank you for sharing it.
Cheers to Hungary! Stay strong! Don’t give in!
Anti-EU! (EU = USSR)

Comment by Keith

Dear Keith, If I have the opportunity to pass along your comment, I will. I might see Father Rostand, and Bishop Tissier is coming in March for our confirmations. Still, as you may know, SSPX is in the fight of its life and really, the faster solution is for the Church to repudiate the Council, and the Council’s teaching of ‘religious liberty.’ How could we help that? (You are, by reading about Hungary and by commenting and I am sure by prayer, too!) I mean, how could we help that more? I wish I could go to Rome and picket. Stage a hunger strike outside the Vatican (like Catherine of Siena, except, as far as I go, not!). Something! Also I would like to donate to Hungary and put the link on my little blog here, but so far no one has answered my inquiry, from Hungary (I wrote the embassy here in the states, and also the contact button at a FIDESZ site.).

You really put it well about how Hungary’s steps could, if imitated, help all of Europe–help it in what it says it wants! And it’s the same with the Church! They say they want a stronger Catholic identity, and yet they ignore the implications of pushing for ‘religious freedom,’ as if that didn’t mean the inevitable downfall of morality, not to mention the blurring of Catholic identity. We humans are not very logical.

Comment by thewhitelilyblog

I think belaboring the point about one man’s idea of “faux traditionalists” is tedious. I don’t know from whence you come, but unless you’ve experienced Catholicism in the old country in places where it’s still strong, you might not appreciate that old European Catholicism isn’t much like the typical American diocese.

The Catholic Church is still very influential in Hungary and looks to become more so in the future with or without the SSPX.

In any case, the idea of a strong Church influential in the political life of a country flies in the face of Post-Coniliar anti-triumphalism.

As it turns out, they say are actually active in Hungary but I haven’t found out if they actually have any chapels there.

Comment by Tancred

Tancred, faux traditionalism is real, and very injurious to the restoration of tradition, and where do you get the idea that the definition is by ‘one man’? (Perhaps you mean me, but I am not a man!)

But let’s not fight about that. Perhaps it is mean spirited of me. At least you see and agree with my point: that the idea of a strong Church influential in the political life of a country flies in the face of Post-Conciliar anti-triumphalism. (I call that feigned helplessness. Another fake, like faux traditionalism.)

I also didn’t find out yet about the chapels. But I don’t think the presence or absence of chapels in Hungary is as important as them staying in the fight in Rome, and the rest of us joining them. Including those traditionalists who keep saying it’s just the liturgy, and keep forgetting every new morning yesterday’s lesson that slapped them upside the head with the fact that it’s the doctrine, it’s the doctrine, the devil himself could celebrate the traditional mass, it’s not any guarantee, how could they possibly think it was that easy?

Comment by thewhitelilyblog

A strong Catholic King would do wonders here. Karl V anyone? It’s his time.

Comment by Blayne Charles Joseph Riley

Dear White Lily. I saw your comment at Pertinacious Papist and I am now on your email list.

Keep up the good fight but do not deceive your own self (I am sure you won’t) that there is cause for aught but the Theological Virtue of Hope.

On the natural level, our inertia into Indifferentism can only be acted upon by a puissant Prelate who embodies Catholic Tradition and who, therefore, could be a force applied to that inertia and no mater what one may think about Bishop Fellay, he has zero force within the Hierarchy of The Catholic Church.

Think about the Conclave; it was a College of Cardinals chosen solely by the last two Popes and those men elected Bergolio and Pope Francis will now choose the replacements for the Cardinals who will be forced to retire during his Primus inter Pares Papacy and he will choose as Cardinals men after his own heart, not Catholic Traditionalists.

We face a future that is stark and dreadful and I would not put it past this Pope to dispense with the Conclave, choose his successor, and then retire at age 80 and the conservative catholics will congratulate him on his judicious judgment.

Comment by I am not Spartacus

[…] God must be formally recognized in the US constitution.  There is no justice possible in any country which denies the first justice, gratitude owed to God. Abortion must be re-criminalized; it is killing both our souls and our economy. The too-big-to fails must be broken up and ownership must be redistributed among the people, along with land. Homosexual marriage must be undone and services and support of reproductive families must be delivered. We’d need a party to do that. If we only had a party like that! A party not unlike FIDESZ in Europe, the party that overwhelmingly captured Hungary’s democratic vote all the while praying the ros…. […]

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